You're going to be the first A.R.A. president in the 21st century and it's going to be your 20th year as the owner of a rental business. Does that give you some sense of history? Is it like a "monumental" position for you? Or is that being too grandiose?

I can tell you, it's exciting. It's gratifying. It's rewarding. And yes, you might like to think you could do something that would stand out as a kind of monument to mark your term as president. But the reality is that, while you can set a particular process or program in motion, you know that it's going to take more than a year to do anything of real importance, and you won't know, at the end of your term, just how successful it's going to be. It takes a continuity of leadership - one president passing the program to the next, and moving things forward.

What motivated you to take on a job as difficult and time-consuming as this?

I've learned so much, gained so much from this industry - I'd like to give some of it back.

What have you learned about management that can be transferred to the A.R.A. presidency?

I think the No. 1 thing is to let people [committees] know what the purpose is, and the goal, and let them run with the ball. You encourage, suggest and move forward toward the goals that you've set. I don't think I could micromanage the A.R.A., because I certainly can't micromanage Frank Wilson's Tents & Events.

Does a president manage "top-down," suggesting to committees the programs he'd like to see, or "bottom-up," waiting for committees to bring the agenda to him?

I think over the past it's been more bottom-up. But I think some structure needs to be given to it - more top-down than it has been. We've brought committee members in, then shot them in the foot when we didn't like the program and moved on. What we ought to do is say, "Here are some ideas. You formulate them." People will come up with great ideas, but there needs to be a structure where there's an understanding of what you're trying to do.

What will make your year a success, in your eyes?

Forward movement. I would hope that when we look back, we will see that we have marched a course to move the association and its members forward.

What are the high-priority items on the agenda?

There are four major goals on my agenda: develop a new long-range plan, grow the state association program and the Members Buying Alliance and get more out of the committees that we appoint - I won't even begin to tell you that I know the answers, because I don't.

We have to look at a new long-range plan. The one we have is coming up on four years old. In the last four years the whole rental industry has changed. And you have to change with it. There has to be a continuity of change. Hotch Manning, Skip Evans and Pam McKenney started the ball rolling on the long-range plan we have, and it carried through Jay Lageschulte's and Richard Paquette's terms, but now in this term it's time to look at it again and get it in shape to carry on through Charlie Neffle's term and beyond. The long-range plan is only going to guide us in a forward direction. It's not going to solve the problems by itself.

Then, I think the state association program we have is excellent, but it needs to be tweaked. It's a good one now, I'd just like to enhance it.

You say it takes a continuity of leadership to accomplish more than what can be done in a year. What key projects and priorities do you see like this?

Our insurance program is a key one. We need to bolster that - it's a good program. But certainly, as this association gets bigger, there's got to be more delegation. This is a volunteer organization - you can't just divorce yourself from your business. A very strong point for me is that I know how to balance things.

How do you define your goals for the association?

I don't have a crystal ball. How I determine what's important to this industry is by talking to people. Everywhere I go, I ask other rental dealers what they think. That's how I learned that we should be working on the long-range plan, the state association program, the MBA and the committees. I believe for the A.R.A. to move forward and to grow, we have to have awfully good people on these committees. But the selection process is going to get tougher, because of all the consolidations in the industry. We've lost some very talented people in these consolidations.

What about the MBA? What has to be done there?

I don't think that a lot of people understand the MBA, and what it does and what it will and will not do, and how vital a buying group is for this association. We have to market the MBA and make sure everyone understands it.

What about the large rental companies, the consolidators? Is there some long-term advantage in involving them in the structure of the association?

I think it's part of the lifeblood of the association. I've always said that. You can be an independent, but you can't just stay inside your own fenced-in area. There's a lot to learn out there, and we can learn from everybody. The independents and the consolidators can learn from each other. If I go back and look at what I've learned in the past 10 years in this industry, I could never repay anyone for the amount of knowledge I've gained. What has made my business successful is the knowledge I have gained from other rental people.

Let me ask you a provocative question: In view of the powers of large companies - training programs, buying power, certification programs, literature - is a trade association an anachronism these days, a thing of the past?

No. We have to identify the need that they have that we can meet. Much of what we have, they're already doing, that's true - training and management development, for instance. You've got to find the need that will make the large companies a part of the association. We will find that need and meet it.

Can you speculate for a moment about that? What can A.R.A. do for the large companies? And as incoming president of A.R.A., how do you plan to involve those large companies in the association?

Legislative action is a strong point of A.R.A. The more numbers you bring to your legislative effort - the bigger your constituency - the stronger you are. A.R.A. can assemble those numbers - together, we are much larger than all the large companies put together.

Another thing - we haven't researched enough to find out exactly how large this rental market is. In the United Kingdom, as you've pointed out in Rental Management, all the rental companies, even the small independents, report their figures publicly. If we did that here, we would have a lot better idea of what this market really is. Market research is something of real value that we could do for the large companies.

Have you thought about establishing a seat on the A.R.A. board for the large companies?

I think that has to be looked at.

What are the top needs of the rental industry in North America? And how do you match up these needs with A.R.A. capabilities?

The first one that comes to my mind, and the one I hear most, is education. We've got good education programs - it's the best-kept secret we have. We have to market what we have. Take the safety training program, for example - go try to buy it. It's not a bargain, it's a steal! An absolute steal! I think the training and education part is the key to this association. It's the No. 1 need. How do you get people into church? You feed 'em. We've got to feed 'em.

What has prepared you for the presidency?

You know, I said I wanted to be president of A.R.A. in 1981 - the second year I was in business, as Frank Wilson's Rentals & Sales. I needed $11,000. I went to the bank and they said no. I called my old boss, Roy Milling [A.R.A. president 1968-69], and told him the story, and he just wrote out a check for me. I've wanted to help other people ever since. It's people like Roy Milling, over the past 20 years, who have prepared me to be president.

Who else comes to mind?

Steve Kohn [Miller's Rentals, Edison, N.J.], Hotch Manning [former owner of A-1 Rental Centers, Las Cruces, N.M., and A.R.A. president 1995], Jay Lageschulte [S & M Rentals, Phoenix, A.R.A. president 1998], Tim Maloney [Canton Chair Rental, Canton, Ohio] - there is an untold number of folks who have helped me.

How are you passing that on?

I've been extremely active in helping new rental people get started. I've talked with them, helped them set up their inventory, and just tried to be a good steward of what I've learned.

What would you say to someone who wants to know why you would encourage more people to come into the business? Why increase the competition?

There's still 55 or 60 percent of the people who don't rent. We haven't even tapped the market. We don't even know where the market's at - we have no idea. A lot of people don't have a game plan. You ask them where their business is coming from and they don't know.

Let me tell you a story. One day a lady came in trying to sell me a radio ad. They'd done a survey and ranked me as the No. 1 best-known name in the rental business in this town, and she thought that was great. But what intrigued me was that down at the bottom of the page, under "no response," it said there were 64 percent of the people who didn't even know who we were, and there were only 9 percent who did. Now, you know what I did? I went after the 64 percent who didn't. I paid them to give me the zip codes of those people and we did a mailing. And the next time they did that survey, three years later, we went from 9 to 28 percent, and the "no response" went down to 51 percent - still not excellent, but we did pick up some business by what we did.

There's a lot of potential out there. Having new people come into the business is not going to hurt us. But you do have to go after the market.

So you believe that there is plenty of opportunity ahead for the North American rental industry.

The opportunities in the next 20 years are going to be unlimited - as far as the mind can imagine. Even with all these consolidations and acquisitions, the industry is still growing - and the association is growing. The rental industry is becoming better known. And one very important thing that hasn't really been recognized very much is that the consolidations so far have basically been in the construction segment. I think the light equipment and tool segment, and the homeowner market, are where the future growth is.

That's what the British operators keep saying.

That's what I say, too. They're correct. The large companies in this country haven't recognized that. In my old business, I had about 40, maybe 45 percent contractors, the rest homeowners. Let's say 60 percent of $4 million - that's a volume of $2.4 million. Wouldn't you like to do $2.4 million just from homeowners? The good news about that business is that [the rental inventory] goes out, comes back and you rent it again - half-day, one-day rentals, and all cash business. Zip, zip, zip. It's called cash flow - cash in, cash out. You don't have to wait 30 days for your money.

What is your No. 1 concern for the rental industry?

My biggest concern for the rental industry is how to get the message out there. We put entirely too much emphasis on competition - the big-box stores, hardware stores, other rental companies. You build your business on the strengths that you have.

You sell what you have to sell - your strengths. The rental industry isn't doing enough of that. No salesmanship of your business, no increase in business. We need to do a better job of educating people about rental, and about the equipment they rent.

We want to build brand name, brand awareness, name recognition. When they think of rental, we want them to think of us. You can't make someone rent something he doesn't need, but when he does need to rent, we want him to think of us.

So new competition in the industry doesn't concern you then.

Where is it written that we're supposed to fight with the people who are in the same business we're in? Look at all the shoe stores in the mall. We worry more about competition than we do about building the strengths in our business. What sells this business is service.

How do you build a customer base? You retain the ones you have - by offering the best service and solutions. Give them your best and your customer base branches out - the word gets around.

What about pricing as a competitive weapon?

Price is not the determining factor of rental. It's service, service, service. Price is not the problem, if the quality and the service are there.

We worry more about competition than we do about building business.

How did you market your message when you were in tool rental?

"I have certified mechanics. I have the largest delivery fleet in this town. We have five stores in this area. We have a delivery and pickup service. We have a drive-through lane that will save you time. We're open 60 hours a week. We're locally owned and operated. We accept Visa and MasterCard. We guarantee the fastest customer service in town." - and whether that has any practical value to the customer or not, the image is still value. What does all that say to the customer? Service. It says service.

Everybody in this industry has a story to tell. We're keeping our stories the best-kept secrets in the service industry. If I have a competitive strength, why would I want to keep it a secret?

I think you get so obsessed and closed-minded trying to beat the other guy that you forget that you have features to sell, and so you don't sell them. Put those features in your statements. Put them on the counter. I want my customers to know about them.

What is the most important thing you learned about the tool rental business when you were in it?

That we are really in the planning business, for contractors. Contractors don't plan - rental companies plan for them. They call up and want a backhoe. You ask when they need it. They say, "Right now!" Is that planning? No. But are we ready to help them? Yes. We're actually an extension of that contractor's business.

If you could name the No. 1 ingredient for success in the rental business, what would it be?

The character and reputation of your business is the most important thing. You want to be known in the community as a fair and honest businessman who will treat customers well. And you have to transfer that to your employees.

You walk into a business and some people have a glow about them. Others, the light's out. It makes you not want to do business there. Your employees have to be upbeat. When a customer tells me he appreciated the service he had from an employee, I pass that on. I let them know I appreciate it. You build business with people, not on them.

Do you ever fear failure?

Failure is an opportunity to change and do better. The key is to learn from what happens.

What are your shortcomings?

Let me tell you something. Under no circumstances will you ever hear me say that I've got everything under control. I find my shortcomings every day. And that's what makes me a better operator.

What strengths of leadership have these shortcomings led you to?

Well, I used to lose my temper a lot. And I couldn't understand why the morale of my employees was bad. So I was looking in the mirror one day and it occurred to me that I was the problem - but I was also the solution. I've changed my management style. You learn by your people - they help you learn. My shortcomings have taught me to learn, to listen and to know that I don't have all the answers.

What do you think is going to be different, running a trade association, compared to running a business?

You're dealing with volunteers who are not paid and can tell you to take a hike in a short, skinny minute. But you also deal with different personalities, and I think I have a strength in doing that.

So it's pretty good that you learned to control your temper before you got to this point.

I'd say amen to that. When I was younger, just starting out in this business, I could get mad in a putt-putt game. But you know, age and customers and employees have a tendency to change your attitude. If you're a grizzly bear, guess who's going to be a grizzly bear back to your customers - your employees, that's who. If you try to create an atmosphere where they're happy, your customers sense that. And they tell you - that's feedback - and then you pass that on back to your employees.

Do you think in the future the A.R.A. will continue to classify rental companies by inventory groups?

We need to get more sophisticated in how we do it. Try to define "general tool" for me. There are two things we can define pretty well - construction and party. You can't define anything beyond that. The industry has developed, grown and changed so much, the distinctions of inventory have become blurred and there's a lot of overlap, and specialties - the market mix is different for each company. You see this in general tool more than anywhere else.

What does the future hold for the A.R.A. trade show?

Bigger and better. At one time, I felt a need to carve the party out and have two shows, but I don't know now - I think it has to be looked at. I personally see Page 47 From Page 45 the show changing dramatically over the next five years, but what the changes will be remain to be seen. The industry is changing rapidly. The show will have to change too, but I don't think it can be determined today what the show will be like, or should be like, in another five years.

Will the board structure stay the same - organized by regions?

I don't think what we're doing now is working. I think we have too many people on the board. How do you change that? I don't have any idea. But I'm advocating changes only in the board structure, not the regions. The satellite office we have in Texas now has worked well - that's the way we ought to go: more field offices. The regional directors don't have the time to get out among their constituents. So we need to study it and come up with a better way. This is part of that enhancement of the state association program that I mentioned earlier.

Will independents still dominate the industry?

Yes. And there's room for even more independent companies. The large companies are not addressing the general rental market, including homeowners.

Is there still a "core member" of A.R.A.?

Yes, I think so. I think it's the independent - I've never liked the term "mom and pop." I think the core membership is the independent rental company with one or two stores. But many are afraid, and they're afraid of one thing: change. Some can't change. These are the people who "circle the wagons" and want to keep change away, so it doesn't change them, instead of going to another wagon and seeing what's in it.

When you get comfortable where you are, you stay there. If you think change is easy, just keep a log for one month and write down everything you do. If you get up at 6, write it down. If you have oatmeal for breakfast, write it down. Write it all down. Now change your routine - shower the night before instead of in the morning, shave before you start the coffee instead of after - and watch what happens to your day. Little changes in our routine disorient us. We are so conditioned to structure that we refuse to change. But we have to.

You are going to have the highest profile of anybody in this industry, worldwide. People are going to listen to you - you now have what Teddy Roosevelt called a "bully pulpit." Is there anything you, as president, can do to correct this fear of change?

That's a pretty heavy-duty responsibility. If I can share experiences and help people, I think that's great. Maybe the best thing that a person in a position of responsibility like this can do is share experiences and help people see the truths around them, help them see their role clearly.

What sort of truths about their roles would you like them to see?

People can't change if they don't change their attitude toward change. "What is A.R.A. going to do about the big boxes, etc., etc.?" is not the right question. The right question is, "What are you doing to train your people to compete? What are you doing about it?" We tend to chew over these problems and then go home and do nothing about it. That won't work. You've got to do something to help yourself. I'd rather have half of the piece of bread than no bread at all. You don't get the bread by just talking about it. Action is what gets you the bread. A fast nickel is better than a slow dime.